[humpty dumpty]

So within the year both Lincoln and Lexus will have new offers in the ultra competitive compact CUV tranche. This is a market already heavily crowded with German premiums, and a segment Lexus actually built by themselves way back with the '98 RX300.

But the question is which will sell more, or a better question, which one will appeal to shoppers in superior fashion? Will it be the Escape based MKC or the RAV4 Based NX?

Keep in mind that Escape and RAV4 fight the volume battle regularly in the more pedestrian segments. Escape is actually the size leader moving about 24,000 units per month, contrasted to the RAV4's 21,000...

So who wins, Lexus or Lincoln?

 

[HotRod]

It will in part depend on what the production NX looks like. The concept was over the top. There is no question the production model will be tamed down, but just how much remains to be seen. Recent renderings show promise, but the grille will remain controversial regardless of the accompanying sheet metal.

Lexus has proven the ability to sell mediocre products on reputation and dealer service. Lincoln doesn't currently have such ability. Lincoln will need a superior product to compete. The styling is a good start. Personally, I think Lincoln is missing an opportunity by not offering a V6 option. 4-cylinder turbos make plenty of power, but they're not for everybody. There will always be those who prefer the linear power delivery of a normally aspirated engine. RDX sales prove that.

 

[DeMarco]

I think lincoln needs to work on all area's. People tell me how the experience at domestic car dealers are horrible when compared to japanese dealers. then there's what people say about the vehicles.

 

[golfball]

is the NX really based on the Rav4?

Lexus has a much bigger market

They will win just because its a lexus

 

[HotRod]

is the NX really based on the Rav4?

It is. They need to improve the platform's crash structure though. The Rav4 failed the new small offset crash test. Toyota was heavily criticized for its poor performance. Lexus will be blasted if the NX doesn't perform better.

 

[DeMarco]

As long as it's just the platform, im okay with that. seeing how they do things now, it seems like the NX will be significantly different from the rav4

 

[golfball]

it looks different at least

 

[Hunter090]

I think that Lexus' reputation and reliability will go a long way in driving sales. i don't think that means that the MKC is a worse vehicle or anything; it is just a product of having the right brand image. Lincoln is still building its brand back up where as Lexus is quite well developed as a brand at the moment.

 

[humpty dumpty]

It will in part depend on what the production NX looks like. The concept was over the top. There is no question the production model will be tamed down, but just how much remains to be seen. Recent renderings show promise, but the grille will remain controversial regardless of the accompanying sheet metal.

Lexus has proven the ability to sell mediocre products on reputation and dealer service. Lincoln doesn't currently have such ability. Lincoln will need a superior product to compete. The styling is a good start. Personally, I think Lincoln is missing an opportunity by not offering a V6 option. 4-cylinder turbos make plenty of power, but they're not for everybody. There will always be those who prefer the linear power delivery of a normally aspirated engine. RDX sales prove that.

Appreciate the response HotRod. I've bolded what I want to respond to.

If you remember thats exactly how Lexus built their image up in the first place. When they first entered the luxury market they all but killed Lincoln and Cadillac, Caddy has just recovered and Lincoln is on the way (that was almost 20 years ago!) they then did the same things vs the germans and still do to a degree. You're right thats the play book lincoln needs, a truely superior product that costs less than rivals.

As for the V6, I don;t actually think one is going to fit. The platform of the Escape and by extention MKC was borrowed from the Focus, its a tight little engine bay, perhaps a V6 could of fit longitudinally but theres no way to get it in there transversely...

 

[golfball]

I wouldnt say lexus builds inferior products.

They build some pretty darn reliable cars and have had a pretty big impact on the industry.

 

[HotRod]

As for the V6, I don;t actually think one is going to fit. The platform of the Escape and by extention MKC was borrowed from the Focus, its a tight little engine bay, perhaps a V6 could of fit longitudinally but theres no way to get it in there transversely...

I'd be surprised if it wouldn't fit. Most V6 (two banks of three cylinders) are shorter than an inline four. Fitting them transversely is rarely an issue. Ford has managed to squeeze an inline five into the Focus in the past, and Volvo manages to shoehorn an inline six transversely into the small-ish V60.

If Lincoln ever "hot rods" the MKC, I wouldn't be surprised if they use the 2.7L Nano EcoBoost V6 currently under development for the F150. That sounds like an ideal compromise between power and efficiency.

 

[humpty dumpty]

I'd be surprised if it wouldn't fit. Most V6 (two banks of three cylinders) are shorter than an inline four. Fitting them transversely is rarely an issue. Ford has managed to squeeze an inline five into the Focus in the past, and Volvo manages to shoehorn an inline six transversely into the small-ish V60.

If Lincoln ever "hot rods" the MKC, I wouldn't be surprised if they use the 2.7L Nano EcoBoost V6 currently under development for the F150. That sounds like an ideal compromise between power and efficiency.

yea but theres more to than how many banks across. When you facor in the gearboxes, cooling components and the turbos it is quite the tight fit..

this is the 2013 escapes engine bay, let me know if you see enough room for a v6 in there...

 

[DeMarco]

through my experience Lexus has been good, they do have the odd electrical problem but it's uncommon. Most people seem to love their Lexus.

 

[HotRod]

I wouldnt say lexus builds inferior products.

They build some pretty darn reliable cars and have had a pretty big impact on the industry.

I'm trying so see where somebody referred to them as "inferior". I can't find it. I called the products mediocre, and I stand behind it. From a reliability standpoint, they're hard to beat. Customers are loyal because it's about as stress-free ownership experience as you can have. Plus the dealer experience is top notch. But from an engineering or styling standpoint I would rate them below average. Well below in some cases. But it works for them. At least it has so far. But I think they're getting a little complacent, and long term that could bite them.

 

[HotRod]

yea but theres more to than how many banks across. When you facor in the gearboxes, cooling components and the turbos it is quite the tight fit..

this is the 2013 escapes engine bay, let me know if you see enough room for a v6 in there...

Actually, there does appear to be enough room in there. Below are pics of Ford's 2.0T I4 and 3.5L V6 as they appear in the Edge. Without looking for obvious cues, can you tell which is the "bigger" engine?

 

[humpty dumpty]

the edge is significantly bigger than the 13 escape, yet look how that 6 is shoe horned in there...

you hot rod is going to come from a hotter 2.3. probabaly with the same tune as the ecoboost mustang, north of 300 and 300...

 

[HotRod]

the edge is significantly bigger than the 13 escape, yet look how that 6 is shoe horned in there...

You are aware the top picture is the 4-cylinder? There is more side clearance on the V6.

 

[golfball]

depends on the v6

they make some pretty small v6s

 

[JasDmw]

Hello folks; first post here and right on topic. Am struggling with this myself. Have a 2009 RX 350 and am considering what's next. The RX has been bulletproof, and remains so. But we took delivery of a '13 Focus Titanium 1.5 years ago and I really like all the tech gizmos in it. We also don't need a "big" SUV anymore. Last thing; family work at Ford so we are always eligible for A plan.

Agree the dealer experience is far superior for Lexus. However, it also comes at a price. Since the warranty expired, been getting most of the work at Toyota stores. Same parts as the Highlander. Price for basic services (scheduled maintenance, brakes) about 1/2 that for Lexus. So if the NX is Rav 4 based, all the better.

Ford store experience has been spotty. The Focus is fine for my use; daily driver to work. About 15K KMs so far and not much in the way if issues. Had the front end strut noise, now fixed and 2 rattles that will be investigated next time it goes in for service. Other than that, does what's expected. I even like MFT and the self parking bit, though not much use for it as yet. Not impressed with retained value, though. RX still worth well north of 45% 6 years on. Will the MKC replicate that? Highly unlikely.

Will have to drive them both and go from there, I guess.

 

[humpty dumpty]

Hello folks; first post here and right on topic. Am struggling with this myself. Have a 2009 RX 350 and am considering what's next. The RX has been bulletproof, and remains so. But we took delivery of a '13 Focus Titanium 1.5 years ago and I really like all the tech gizmos in it. We also don't need a "big" SUV anymore. Last thing; family work at Ford so we are always eligible for A plan.

Agree the dealer experience is far superior for Lexus. However, it also comes at a price. Since the warranty expired, been getting most of the work at Toyota stores. Same parts as the Highlander. Price for basic services (scheduled maintenance, brakes) about 1/2 that for Lexus. So if the NX is Rav 4 based, all the better.

Ford store experience has been spotty. The Focus is fine for my use; daily driver to work. About 15K KMs so far and not much in the way if issues. Had the front end strut noise, now fixed and 2 rattles that will be investigated next time it goes in for service. Other than that, does what's expected. I even like MFT and the self parking bit, though not much use for it as yet. Not impressed with retained value, though. RX still worth well north of 45% 6 years on. Will the MKC replicate that? Highly unlikely.

Will have to drive them both and go from there, I guess.

Welcome to the show @JasDmw! stick around, some knowledgeable folks here should be able to help you with the decision, just keep in mind, we're going to be biased